While it's an interesting story, I doubt they needed Claude to work a hospital bill down to that amount. Hospital billing folks are acutely aware that the initial bill is outrageous and indefensible from their end. I've heard a ton of cases where folks basically "pay what they can" for the bill and that's good enough for both parties. I doubt the reasoning Claude provided was ultimately what got the hospital to knock the bill down, probably more around the legal action and PR threats. Ironically, the hospital will probably count this as charity even though OP didn't want to be considered charity, as they had to write off part of the bill.
IMO the pro move is not to get the hospital to accept what an insurance company would pay, but get them to accept slightly more than what a debt collector would pay.
> While it's an interesting story, I doubt they needed Claude to work a hospital bill down to that amount. Hospital billing folks are acutely aware that the initial bill is outrageous and indefensible from their end.
OP agrees: "Ultimately, my big takeaway is that individuals on self-pay shouldn’t pay any more than an insurance company would pay—and which a hospital would accept as profitable business—than the largest medical payer in the country. I had access to tools that helped me land on that number, but the moral issue is clear. Nobody should pay more out of pocket than Medicare would pay. No one. ... Hospitals know they are the criminals they are and if you properly call them on it they will back down."
> I've heard a ton of cases where folks basically "pay what they can" for the bill and that's good enough for both parties. I doubt the reasoning Claude provided was ultimately what got the hospital to knock the bill down, probably more around the legal action and PR threats. Ironically, the hospital will probably count this as charity even though OP didn't want to be considered charity, as they had to write off part of the bill.
I read that OP refused to sign something that fraudulently said the full price was $195k but rather insisted on signing on a bill that said the full price was $33k or $37k or something. (Maybe $4k was called charity.) They might have presented a completely different bill to the IRS to justify tax-exempt status, but that illegal action would be totally on them; OP is not participating in their tax fraud. I applaud OP for that and hope this becomes the norm.
I'm getting that most people don't know the sticker price is fraudulent (e.g. the overlapping "master procedure" and component codes) and/or are so relieved to have the charity out that they agree to it without any further questions. But OP points out that the charity out is just further fraud, victimizing tax-payers.
the medical insurance industry and the hospitals do this whole song-and-dance charade where they pretend that they are charitable, public-protecting institutions who serve noble goals of helping sick people.
in truth, they are doing nothing but racketeering.
The hospitals and insurers are locked in a Red Queen Race. The hospital bills for 10x actual market value. The insurer touts they are getting you a 90% discount. The individual who got sick or injured gets crushed in the middle.
It's insane that somehow a 195k bill can change into a 34k one, without putting serious doubt on the validity of that final bill. How does this work in court? Are they going to claim their 34k bill is all correct while starting at 195k? Or would it be equally plausible if the debtor said "I've not received any of the care billed for, so I'm not paying"
They can't really claim their records are any kind of proof if apparently they now agree that 82% of it was wrong?
> Hospital billing folks are acutely aware that the initial bill is outrageous and indefensible from their end. I've
I'm sure they also have a long arsenal of various legal tricks they bundle into offerings like they did in the linked thread with respect to attempting to relabel it a charitable donation, etc.
Google and friends has made sure the hospital knows among other things how much you make, your life insurance policy payout, the value of your home, etc.
