Sodium ion batteries are typically safer than lithium ion batteries. They operate safely over a wider range of temperatures, and have reduced risk of self-combustion.

They also produce much less harmful combustion products when they do catch fire.

Most contrarians fail to compare their detractions against alternatives such as "maintaining the status quo". Maybe batteries with hazardous chemicals in solid state form inside solid housings aren't particularly net-negative by comparison to most existing casual energy storage alternatives such as internal combustion, at least to most laypeople?

You make a claim without a source and refuse to back it up when asked, yet you are doubling down on your confidence in the initial statement. There's an interesting discussion to be had, but this is not it.

There are several factors to be considered: the actual risk of older and newer systems, the impact, how to mitigate a fire and avoid the worst consequences, and weighing against the alternatives. Especially the latter is somehow always absent in denialist narratives. However, when the alternative is basically heating the planet into a dystopian hellscape, we may accept some negatives of any kind of technology that doesn't put our whole existence at risk.

We need to be real about the downsides yes, but let's also be real and accept we don't have any choice but push forward.

Here is my 1 minute AI powered 'research' btw:

"The fire risk for battery plant storage is not a single, universally agreed-upon percentage, but available data suggests a low and decreasing risk, especially for properly maintained and installed systems. For example, one study found the 2023 risk for home battery systems to be \(0.0049\%\), while another source reports a \(97\%\) drop in large-scale system failures between 2018 and 2023. The risk is influenced by factors like manufacturing quality, installation, and maintenance."

Doesn't seem all that alarming yet.

Those facts seem hallucinated so you should follow your own advice & post the actual sources.

> California batteries are constantly going up in flames.

What is the fraction of California batteries that went up in flames during the last year?

I like that you made a post complaining about people not sourcing their claims and then eight minutes later made a post declining to source your particular claim

The information requested does not exist in the link you posted.

You can just admit you exaggerated a lot.

Yeah, yeah. Care to provide a list of burned batteries?

> I don't really do research for random internet strangers

They weren’t asking you to do research for them, they asked if you had done research for yourself.

You already admitted that you would have to do research to back up your claim. Like if you had the data you wouldn’t need to “do research” to post it.

if YOU make a claim, you need to provide proof. simple as. anything else is a logical fallacy or malicious argument :)

This whole conversation with measurablefunc has been like seeing somebody get asked for a dollar, loudly yelling “And get a job?!” and then spending an hour trying to convince everyone in the room that they’re Bruce Wayne. I love this website.

Edit: or like seeing somebody get asked for a cookie and then saying “And go to the store? And buy sugar? And eggs? And flour? And drive home and bake them?! Hell no!” and then saying “obviously that meant I have a ton of cookies in my house right now”

You are welcome to follow the relevant the links & reach your own conclusions.

Exactly, you would have to do research to answer the question. You haven’t done it for yourself, so why should you do it for a stranger?

Which question would that be? The one about lifecycle & toxicity or percentage that goes up in flames every few months?

> Which question would that be?

Probably the questions about all the batteries you claim are burning. The ones that you read earlier and then said that you can answer.

“I would have to do research to find a list of batteries that burned and the percentage of the batteries that burned and I do not want to do that research”

“I already did the research and have a list of burned batteries and know the percentage of them that burn but I will not share it until you research it and give your findings to me”

“With all this talk of ‘what batteries burned’ and ‘the percentage of the batteries that burned’ I have completely lost track of what anyone wants to know re: my statements about all of the batteries that I claimed are burning”

Data is readily available. You can do your own research or pay someone to figure it out for you if you can't.

Buddy the way it works when you don’t know something is you just say that you don’t know it. We all know that you don’t know how many batteries burned or what fractions of them both.

You are trying to do the “get the internet to do your homework for you by posting the wrong answer” Reddit meme trick but being so incredibly off putting that it isn’t working. Nobody is going to do your research for you because everyone can tell that’s what you’re asking them to do.

constantly = once

There will be another one in less than 6 months¹. How much are you willing to bet?

¹https://newenergyrisk.com/battery-fires/

Those are lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide batteries in your example, not sodium.

I’m not sure what your point is? All batteries are bad? Oil is good? What?