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Was going to page you. Ctrl-F for simonw, and you beat me to it. Love your writing.


Smart approach, imho.


This is a key point, well made.


We should let people that brave it, comment on it without being told they shouldn’t be there by people who aren’t there.

Commenting on it is critical. Commentary can spark a change in ideas and attitudes for the better.

HN crowd always go to the pragmatic.

But what about big ideas? Big change? Can we support people that are pursuing that without zooming immediately into technicalities?

Probably not. But I hope.


It is definitely acceptable to comment on his experience -- and I think it was a fascinating read -- but I'm mostly reacting to the idea that accepting it as a facet of Japanese society is normalizing racism.


You’re really clinging to your “he’s too wide” rationale. Read the article. He’s subject to racism. It’s okay for him to comment on that, and the response over time should be that a society better upholds the idea that each human is equal.

But I’m sure you’re still convinced it’s something to do with the width of the seats.

Only on HN. Honestly.


I think when you experience prejudice regarding your race, it’s unfair to characterize that as “stewing”.

Maybe you don’t find this article or his initial piece insightful; that’s fair enough.

But I also think it’s fair of him to shine a light on unfair treatment in the place he lives, without people suggesting - without irony - that he “go home”.


If you spend extensive time reflecting on an injustice you can’t do anything about and that isn’t going to change that is absolutely “stewing”. I know someone who is still bitter at someone years dead and brings them up to bash them regularly. They were wronged and they’re stewing.

The article’s plenty insightful, it provides a wonderful insight into what it’s like to be the author, and secondarily, an aspect of being a foreigner in Japan that obviously really disturbs some.

There’s no need for quotation marks on home in your last paragraph. Mr. McNeil is not attempting to be Japanese. He’s professionally American in Japan. He writes for English language publications, campaigns for American cultural attitudes and despite living in Japan for 15 years and being a writer his Wikipedia page is only in English.

If he’s being treated unfairly there’s no evidence of it in the linked article.


I don't understand the conclusion that just because he wrote a couple of articles about it ten years apart, that he's been constantly stewing on it for that entire time. Maybe it's something that only occurs to him when he's on the train, and even then maybe only sometimes, and maybe - as a writer - he's trained to recognize these transient thoughts and tease them into articles. That's what a lot of these slice-of-life articles are, focusing on moments that would otherwise slip by and escape notice.


In the words of the late Donald Richie: "I would leave Japan if I were Japanese."

But there are endless perspectives on this issue and quite a few have their merits, despite contradicting each other.


FWIW I live in Japan and I get uneasy around foreigners. And I'd be especially uneasy around folks from my home country!

> experience prejudice regarding your race

I think it might be more about culture than race. Race is a good proxy for "not Japanese". While Japan is not 100% ethnically uniform, if someone doesn't look Japanese they are most likely not Japanese.

When I see a foreigner I don't know if they've been in Japan long enough to share the same values, respect the culture, and the rules. Can I trust them the same way I trust the Japanese? Japanese have earned my trust over time. And spending time in Japan has changed me.

But a foreigner?! I don't know where are they from. I don't know what their country is like and I don't know what they are they like.

Japan is probably the safest place in the world (maybe Singapore can compete? But it's so tiny it's not fair competition). The rest of the world feels like a jungle. Full of wonder, yes, but also full of unknown dangers :)


Somewhat ironically, Singapore is one of the most racially and ethnically diverse places in the world, demonstrating that ethnic non-uniformity shouldn't be a proxy for unknown dangers.


Everything can easily be done in a tiny controlled environment! Also Singapore is fairly uniform. There's Malaysian Singaporean part, Indian part and Chinese part. They do not overlap. Everyone stays in their lane!


I don’t disagree that neighborhoods are fairly delineated, but in the context of this article, everyone rides the same MRT lines. They all sit next to each other too!


  if someone doesn't look Japanese they are most likely not Japanese
Like the Ainu?


> Official estimates place the total Ainu population at 25,000, but unofficial estimates place its total population at 200,000

Meanwhile there are 10M people living in Tokyo. If all Ainu people of Japan lived in Tokyo, how likely would it be for me to meet one?

Also, there were 30M visitors to Japan last year.

So if one doesn't know and one is making a guess, what is more likely? Foreign visitor or a member of a tiny local minority?


[flagged]


It's more complicated than that though, because:

1. he may not be in a position of being able to leave easily after this long--a random example could be a significant other who does not speak English well.

2. the attitude this comment takes (and I've been living in Seoul for the last four years so I've spent a while thinking about this[1]) is absolutely unacceptable to most people if placed in a western context. Different race? He's a guest in their country!

What is it about East Asia that makes this attitude so tempting? is a question that doesn't let go once it gets its hooks into you. The ethnic homogeneity of Japan/Korea and to a lesser extent China must be a part of it. Race and the assumed privilege (privilege to leave, etc) of being a westerner also factors in.For example, things would be murkier if the author of the article were a labourer from SE Asia. But I haven't fully worked it out yet and maybe never will.

[1] Koreans don't do the empty seat thing when the train/bus is crowded. I'll also note that I've been an enthusiastic proponent of "if you don't like it leave" at various times, depending on the situation, and am not pretending to have all the answers.


There may be some cases where it's more complicated, but this isn't one of them.

Japan is the country of the Japanese, and they have no obligation to even let this guy live in his country, much less put up with his whining.


On the contrary, I believe that ethnonationalism is ethnonationalism no matter where you go, as are xenophobic attitudes. The difference lies in what outcomes these worldviews produce in the world. I'm happy to let this interaction end on that note, thanks.


The East Asian ABCC11 allele results in less spontaneous body odor, but exactly because of that many people of East Asian descent, particularly those in East Asia, bathe less often than Americans.

You know who also enjoy reduced apocrine secretions? Old people. But there's a definite musk to old people, very much like the musk of a bunch of younger non-sweaty people on their second or third day (or longer) since showering.

But I wouldn't not sit next to somebody because of that; certainly not in the expectation that I might smell something. (Although certainly I've wished I hadn't sat somewhere because of this.) I find it difficult to believe that even the Japanese would do this, even for a black foreigner[1]. More likely their aversion is more general and non-specific. It takes effort to be that racist, considering the circumstance (crowded train) and prevalence (everybody for years, so like thousands of people; and an experience shared with many other American expats).

Anyhow, being "racist" isn't like some mark of Cain. As you imply, we're all racially prejudiced and all have shared experiences of being prejudiced, which is why I feel I can confidently make some assumptions and draw some inferences despite not being Japanese or having lived in Japan. And the author is pretty clear that he's in a state of perpetually "making peace" with the situation, which is basically a way of saying that though he holds some very strongly held beliefs about the way people should behave, and some visceral feelings about the way he's treated, he's nonetheless aware of the reality of the situation, that these people aren't trying to be mean, and that he recognizes an unresolved moral quandary by judging them and their culture.

[1] I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that most blacks in Japan are American, not from Africa, and therefore much more likely to be daily bathers who use deodorant. Which means it's very unlikely he actually has a strong odor, and far more likely people assume he might based on a stereotype, to the extent they're assuming anything specific at all.


He’s black. Did you read that part?


Honest question, Are Japanese any more likely to be racist against black people than white people? Or a Chinese person?

Usually racism (the hatred variety at least) comes from a degree of familiarity. You won't find a lot of KKK members in Scandinavia and you won't find much antisemitism in areas with no jews.

American race relations are not universally applicable.

Edit - added negation operator.


Hollywood has unfortunately exported American-style black animus to the world, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if Japanese are more racist toward blacks than whites, especially American blacks. Also, the whole light-skin, dark-skin thing was never unique to Europeans. But relative to their general prejudice against foreigners any heightened prejudice might not be very discernible.


Dunno about more or less but when I was in Japan I saw Japanese people get up and move, not just to a different seat, but to a whole different part of the train carriage, when a couple of white Westerners sat next to them.

Also I'm guessing you're missing a 'not' in the last line there?


How does that affect the situation? Is it objectionable for a Japanese person to avoid a seat next to a black person but not a white person?


Of course, I commented on his picture and it would be pretty hard to notice his width and not his race. I don't see why this is pertinent, though, he's not Japanese and I was commenting on the fact that he's not Japanese, not on what race he was.


Width? Don’t make me laugh. It’s racism. Call it what it is. So we can pause, to allow improvement and to better uphold the idea that people are equal.

This kind of avoidance and apologizing of racism are what plant the seeds of xenophobic ideologies.


So? Is the black race so tortured that blacks must feel extra disturbed when subjected to some sort of racism wherever they are in the world?

Racism isn’t something you should always take personally. It is possible to harbor racist feelings toward a race while still making an exception for individuals you get to know on a personal basis.

When I’m in Japan, I know people will take one look at me and think I’m a filthy gaijin. Fair enough, I don’t blame them as they live in a very homogeneous country and outsiders are rare. It is the price I pay for being in their country, and I won’t try to change that, I’ll just try to do my thing and stay out of the way. I don’t want any trouble.


I've seen Giorgia Lupi speak at Eyeo Festival (which is happening now, actually). If you're interested in her work, you might also find the work of other artists at Eyeo interesting too: http://eyeofestival.com

(I'm not affiliated with Eyeo btw, I just think Giorgia's work is beautiful and the only collection of similar creatives is at Eyeo)


I surf, and also build websites. What does this actually do? Store a photo/video of a surf spot by location. Is that all? What incentive is there for people to do this?


If many surfers start doing this, you would soon be able to check [close to] real-time surf conditions from anywhere in the world by simply going to the website.

It's kinda crowd-sourcing of surfcams (coz those don't really deliver)


Ok, I just really don't see the incentive for most (i.e. 95%+) surfers to do this, for various reasons including: crowds at their favourite waves and no mobile signal at remote spots.

In general, surfers don't want to help other surfers find the best spot of the day. Once you're there it's different, and many surfers are really helpful/friendly. But hardly any will say "this spot X that you've never heard of is going to fire today", especially when they know you'll head to the big town beach break away from them ;)

I know surfers that'd give me a lot of shit if I posted video of a spot firing. I know I might do the same if I found out ;)

My suggestion would be to make this a private group thing. Create a, ahem, "circle" of surfers and share reports with them.


You really think your home-rolled static file store will be more resistant to compromise than Google?


This question is nonsensical. If you can't host a static file you are screwed no matter what. We can argue about how much of a risk Google CDN is (I don't think it's much of one), but it's not zero.

"Home rolled static file store"? Sheesh.


No offense, but from my perspective you're getting a little rude here without really explaining the situation.

So far I grasped from you that external static files compromise the security model so much it's worth the time and effort to keep up to date with them locally and be okay if the page load times suffer (they do especially with minimalist sites.)

I understand the risk that Google CDN might be hacked and turned into a data mining monster, but it would, at the same time, infect so many important and popular sites on the whole web, I can't even imagine my sites being targeted.


    but it would, at the same time, infect so many important and popular sites on the whole web, I can't even imagine my sites being targeted.
Maybe, or maybe it's exploited to target only your site by detecting referrers and only serving your site malicious javascript. Thomas is correct in arguing to host your own.


This implies I can do it better than Google or any other big-name-company CDN I happen to trust.

I don't know about you or Thomas, but this isn't true for me.


You ignored the point I'm making. You don't have a choice but to do "static file hosting" securely.


Lots of sites use Google's CDN so it's very likely the file is already in your user's cache. That seems like a nice little speed bonus if the only trade off is the theoretical risk that Google's CDN might be more easily hacked than your own server.

As an aside, I notice on my site there are a few precent of visitors with security settings on their browser that prevent loading from Google's CDN (actually, there's usually an internet security product of some sort interfering). So you're going to have to provide a fallback to a file on your own server anyway.


Of course! Your whole app is hosted on your server, you're already hosting a bazillion images and other files, including scripts and CSS - if your server is compromised it won't matter much whether your jquery.js is safe or not. Also, aside from security concerns, you're adding an unnecessary single point of failure to your project.

Sure, CDNs are advertised as super reliable and stable and whatnot, but all services go down once in a while. As with every monoculture, there will be large scale outages. It's something developers would be better off acknowledging and planning for upfront instead of having a heart attack whenever a service goes down "unexpectedly".


There is a way to fall back to locally hosted version in case the primary one goes down. Still not convinved I should give up on the speed bonus a precached asset gives me.


Thomas wasn't really discussing about this in regards to the external CDN going down he was discussing it in regards to the CDN being a large point of attack with little benefit to your speed increase.

Look at it this way: if google's jquery is attacked and becomes compromised you and everyone else who uses it has become compromised because you were relying on third party security.

Next if you use jquery from google's cdn for the reason of they can do file security better than you you are already fucked because if someone is targeting your specific jquery hosted on your server chances are you are compromised in other ways.

If you want to use it for the precaching you can but I don't think precaching the 100kb jquery is really going to give you that much benefit in the long run, especially if your website is an application or something along those lines.


Honestly, why would they be in more demand than Flash developers?


He didn't say they would be.

But to answer your question: mobile devices that don't support Flash.


Mobile devices don't yet support WebGL either. If you want to do 3D on mobile you have to use CSS 3D Transforms (not supported on some platforms) or Canvas Context2D with a "software" renderer (slow).


They will soon enough. If you start any substantial project now, by the time you finish WebGL will be available on most high-end phones, at least on Android.

Btw. the Nokia N900 has had WebGL support for a year or so. Too bad it's not a very popular model.


Thanks, that's what I meant.


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